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  "path": "/t/custom-semantic-representation-bryla-beats-raw-text-in-24-27-configs-built-solo-on-an-rtx-2060-looking-for-feedback/176542#post_5",
  "publishedAt": "2026-06-05T13:26:00.000Z",
  "site": "https://discuss.huggingface.co",
  "textContent": "This is the best kind of update — you ran the control that could have killed the claim, published the uncomfortable number, diagnosed _why_ it happened, and rebuilt the test so the claim was falsifiable again. The two-test pair you ended up with is honestly more valuable than the original 24/27 result, because it isn’t a score anymore — it’s a **boundary map** :\n\n\n    values self-identifying  ->  structure redundant   (SHUFFLED ≈ BRYLA)\n    values overlapping       ->  structure necessary   (SHUFFLED << BRYLA)\n\n\nThat conditional is a real finding, and your reading of it is exactly right: natural language lives on the overlapping side (“high” can be certainty, urgency, or intensity), so your first clean corpus was hiding the value of structure rather than disproving it.\n\nThree things that might sharpen the next round:\n\n**1. The SHUFFLED 79–81% is not noise — it’s probably the multiset leak, and you can confirm it cheaply.** Your target is `cel = (S1 == S2)`. Shuffling destroys _which_ wall holds _which_ value, but it can’t destroy the **bag** of values — and in some fraction of your pairs the bag alone determines the answer (e.g. whenever a value appears an even/odd number of times in a way that forces or forbids equality). Prediction: if you split SHUFFLED’s results by “answer recoverable from the multiset alone: yes/no,” you’ll find it near-perfect on the first bucket and near-chance on the second. That turns a mysterious 79% into a confirmed mechanism, and it gives you a stronger headline: _BRYLA = 100% on exactly the examples where binding is the only available signal._\n\n**2. You can predict whether natural data will reward structure _before training anything_.** Your boundary map says structure matters iff values overlap across walls. So measure the overlap directly on a natural corpus through your parser: for each value string, count how many distinct walls it appears in (value→wall entropy / collision rate). That’s a few hundred lines of counting, no GPU — and it tells you in advance whether the natural-data experiment can possibly show a BRYLA > SHUFFLED gap. If real Polish through your parser produces mostly wall-unique values, you’ll know to expect SHUFFLED ≈ BRYLA _and why_ , instead of being ambushed by it. It also folds John’s diversity metrics into a causal story rather than a checklist.\n\n**3. One warning on the signature-vector variant before you run it on the hard task — make sure the projection preserves _binding_.** The hidden-target task is solvable only by knowing which value sits in which wall. A projection of the **slot-ordered concatenation** (wall 1’s value embedding, then wall 2’s, …) preserves that assignment, because position in the input vector _is_ the wall label. But anything that pools first — summing or averaging the value embeddings before projecting — produces a bag-of-values vector, structurally identical to SHUFFLED, and the variant will fail for a reason that has nothing to do with the idea. (This is an old and deep problem — “role-filler binding” in the vector-symbolic literature; in our system the equivalent property comes free because signatures are computed per-position, never pooled.) If the slot-faithful projection matches the ~28-token form on the overlapping-values task, you’ll have shown the structure can ride a single dense vector with zero token cost — which would be the strongest result in the thread so far.\n\nThe trajectory here — claim, control, refutation, diagnosis, sharper claim — is the whole method. Most people never make it past step two. Looking forward to the overlap statistics from real Polish; that number now decides everything downstream.",
  "title": "Custom semantic representation (\"bryła\") beats raw text in 24/27 configs — built solo on an RTX 2060, looking for feedback"
}