I read this post first like a month or two ago and it absolutely rewired how I thought about gender…

onlybylaura:

tetrafelino:

tetrafelino:

tetrafelino:

I’m noticing some interesting choices with regards to pronouns in Laura Pohl’s translation of All Systems Red. See, in Portuguese we don’t have object pronouns like “it/its” and neutral neopronouns like “elu/delu” are considered more analogous to the English “they/them”, so gendering Murderbot the way that it is gendered in the original was always going to be tricky. There’s also the other difficulty that adjectives are gendered in Portuguese, so whenever Murderbot describes itself or it’s emotional state or anything, necessarily it was going to gender itself grammatically in some way. What this translation does at first is that the Murderbot’s internal dialogue it genders itself in the masculine which I assumed to be just sort of defaulting Murderbot to be a masculine character, but in reflection of a different detail, I think it’s just defaulting to this formal almost archaic notion of the masculine as neutral. Now, the detail that made me rethink this is this line that I just came upon of Dr Mensah’s:

“UniSeg, preciso que você fique parada aí até eu chegar.”

[SecUnit, I need you to stay st****ill (female form) until I arrive]

The reason that Mensah is referring to Murderbot in the feminine in this case is that it’s referring to it as a security unit, right, and the word Unidade, Unit, in Portuguese, is a feminine word. So I just went back now and I found one other previous instance in which characters refer to Murderbot in the third person and, Ratthi, he calls Murderbot by masculine pronouns but that’s when it’s being referred to as a robô, robot, which in Portuguese is a masculine word. So I guess the way that Pohl found to express Murderbot’s object pronouns is by just using whatever pronouns are in agreement with the word being used to describe it. Which to be fair makes a lot of sense for treating objects in Portuguese. If you call something a cadeira, chair, you’re going to refer to it with feminine pronouns, but if you call the exact same object a sofá, sofa, you will be using the masculine pronouns.

okay I just realized the reason Murderbot refers to itself with masculine pronouns in its internal dialogue all the time is because it’s referring to itself as a robô assasino, murderer robot, which is masculine okay this is kind of genius actually

okay okay this is so cool actually literally the next page and Murderbot is talking about other SecUnits right and it says this

“Elas não eram os robôs-assassinos mais astutos, (…)”

[They (feminine plural) weren’t the (masculine plural) most astute murder robots, (…)]

…feminine pronouns for Unidades de Segurança, SecUnits, and masculine pronouns for robôs-assassinos, murder robots…

so yeah it’s it’s literally exactly as I understood it we are simply using our own grammatical gender rules for objects… it’s so cool

hey, translator here! (: this was absolutely done on purpose. gendering Murderbot would always be a problem, so I, the copyeditors and the brazilian editors worked together to make sure that bots/constructs could be referred with both masculine/feminine pronouns, sometimes even in the same paragraph. same goes for ART in the second novella, who’s also an It in english, but varies between nave (ship, femine) and transporte (transporte, masculine). it’s an important detail and i’m happy it was noticed!

I read this post first like a month or two ago and it absolutely rewired how I thought about gender pronouns in French so thank you for that brazilian translator/editors.

That’s not what the French translation of Murderbot does though, it uses “iel” which, while the most common gender-neutral neopronoun used by nonbinary French speakers I know, is also exclusively used by people. Like, a chair, table, etc can’t be “iel”, it has to be “il/elle”. So “iel” preserves the gender-neutrality, but it’s much less dehumanizing than “it” in English, something that I think the Portuguese solution does a particularly good job at.

The Japanese one is still really good and more people need to appreciate it:

In the Japanese translation of the books, Murderbot uses the genderless neopronoun 弊機 (heiki), which means through its characters "both “bad/evil robot” and “this second-rate, humble company machine".“ It’s also a homophone for 兵器 (heiki), meaning "weapon.” The Japanese translator is Naoya Nakahara, and her translation of the first four Murderbot novellas won a translation award in Japan in 2021.

(From this long Reddit thread comparing Murderbot translations.)