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  "path": "/viewtopic.php?t=33466&p=274510#p274510",
  "publishedAt": "2026-05-23T00:08:13.000Z",
  "site": "http://forum.palemoon.org",
  "textContent": "> but I think it would be very hard for us to get to the point that the average Pale Moon user doesn't need a backup browser... the web just moves too fast. If we have to be a true replacement for Firefox or Chromium, that's just not something a small team can achieve, and you'd basically be asking us to stop the project because of our inability to deliver on that kind of ambition, with the implication that we have to push that hard and go that far, or else resign ourselves to the inevitable and stop fighting.\n\n> All I know is, we're going to keep trying to pull it forward until it's over, but if you are expecting a project with the ambition and resources to become a drop-in replacement for Firefox or Chromium that will eliminate the need for a backup-browser, then I'm afraid you may be in the wrong place. It's honestly not even fair to expect that...\n\nThis is not what I propose, and Pale Moon will most definitely not ever strive for this. Firefox and Chromium each have a multi-process architecture, support DRM, WebRTC and webapps, and develop their capabilities in step with all of Google's web standards. Consequently, they are incredibly bloated, and have a much larger, more complicated codebase than Pale Moon. Pale Moon as inherent advantages in a simpler, smaller codebase and a tendency to use much less resources. I like these advantages. To preserve them, we shouldn't expect to aim to become a Firefox or Chromium, aim to be multi-process or over-optimize or extend the browser/engine in a way that sacrifices composition or simplicity for the sake of fulfilling niche cases.\n\nPale Moon at its best fulfills the balance that it strives to achieve, the balance between being bare bones and having little functionality outside of simple websites made of pure HTML and CSS, and being Chromium/FF. And IMHO, Pale Moon right now is leaning towards the former. And you are right, we shouldn't expect the small dev team we have (most of which are volunteers -- btw, thank you for being one), as it is now, to be able to get to that point where most Pale Moon users -- at least most of those engaged with the Pale Moon community -- can daily drive Pale Moon with no caveats. That is why we should GROW the dev team. To grow the dev team, we have to make sure our userbase can grow. For these things to be able to happen, we need to address Pale Moon's reputation in FOSS.\n\n> And yeah, I don't think there's much we can do about the PR problem... I mean. We are always going to be that community, and those devs who did things the open source community frowns on (our own users don't help and have biases and attitudes that make them say a lot of things mainstream Linux users with good coding skills would find upsetting). I mean... I hate to say it, but maybe this really is the limit of what we can achieve. We are hitting walls. We took this codebase further than anyone ever thought we would, but I don't know how much more room to run we actually have. I did the Python 3 port hoping to make contributing more attractive. But I don't know that anything can wash away the stained reputation we have... only the people who were here would understand.\n\nI actually agree with you on the users' attitudes thing. I've seen some weird stuff said, both here in the forums by other users, and by users in the subreddit. Stuff people would only say in an obscure forum on the Internet\nYou've been in the community for a long while, so I suppose I will sort of trust your word on that. Even though you and the other contributors/devs seem to be pretty chill.\n\nStill, there has to be something we can do. Pale Moon fulfills a niche that it hasn't yet fully tapped into due to its damaged reputation. If Helium can become basically the end-game of web browsing for normie OSS users, out of nowhere, over literally nothing but a sane dev team that listens to its community, then we can turn things around in some way or other.\n\n* * *",
  "title": "General Discussion • Re: Pale Moon's PR Problem",
  "updatedAt": "2026-05-23T00:08:13.000Z"
}